Losing Faith

[MuttonChops]

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Perhaps the impulse buy need caused by first thinking a mid-size diesel would be available in April has died with the ongoing delays and lack of real information. Or perhaps it's the less then wonderful reviews out of Australia regarding quality added to new concerns that the price point may not match the TR20/40 performance. For a combination of these reasons I'm losing faith that a TR20/40 will really be in my 4x4 future.

MPG

A bit more pre-EPA data speculation on the advertised 30 MPG. We all agree that normal marketing means this is 30 MPG highway for the TR20 4x2. So real numbers will place a 4x4 in the 24 MPG city and 29 highway if we are lucky. Yes, slightly better then the competition gassers but not earth shaking, even less so with Diesel priced well above gasoline.

Quality

The few reviews we have of nearly US Market trucks do not sound encouraging. Poorly fit, cheap plastic interiors with little or no road noise insulation. The pictures and write-ups remind me of the first Datsun and Toyota compact trucks imported in the 60's. Bare-bone vehicles at a dirt cheap price. Except a Mahindra is not dirt cheap.

Out the Door Price

Press releases say starting at $22,000. All agree this would be a 4x2 TR20 standard? So a 4x4 TR20 deluxe would be, what say $25,000 with the 4x4 TR40 deluxe $26,500. Plus of course taxes, title, transportation, and all. We're now approaching full size gasser prices . . . the same problem causing the big-3 to drop mid-size models.

Re-sale Value

In three to five years Mahindra will no longer be selling in US or will redesign these models to better fit the US market (or perceived market) needs. Less truck styling, smoother ride, quieter interior, etc. Either way the initial TR's will be near worthless on the used market.

Options

Sounds like the Thailand built Ford Ranger could be here in late 2011. Most likely without the ROW diesel and with some version of the Eco-boost gasser. Clearly this will be a higher quality vehicle then we're expecting to see from Mahindra.

Losing Faith but have Not Totally Given Up

Mahindra still has some tempting pluses that could win out. If and when they are available to touch and test drive.
1. Small diesel . . . they are so much fun to drive and so perfect for a light truck.
2. Real 4x4 . . . the little data we are getting suggests these will be good dirt road trucks with part-time 4x4, hi/lo ranges, limited-slip. Items generally only available on super duty monsters
3. Reasonable body size. Can do what most of us need and easy to park.
4. Truck styling . . . I like the square, raw look but it does come with a slight MPG cost.

So I'm going to wait some more. However a Mahindra purchase this year is no longer a fore-sure outcome.

[DickIsGone]

Well thought out and valid in every way.

[pee wee]

I am in agreement on many of your points, I was ready to ditch the hope that Mahindra would be offering what I was in the market for. The problem for me is that the current offerings here are not satisfactory. I was hoping for a new truck just like the one I bought in 1993- sturdy, basic, fuel efficient and cheap, but there is no longer a truck like that in this market. I continue to drive that truck because it is better suited to me than any of the new trucks out there. Even in India, these trucks are not intended to be basic or cheap, they are targeted at the more affluent buyer who may not require a truck but likes the statement. Thankfully for us, they are not yet stripped of the ruggedness our segment of the market is looking for. The changes they made to the truck for entry into our market did nothing to improve it in my eyes, only make it more expensive. I am also looking forward to a better Ford Ranger offering, but if it shows up here I think we have to at least give a tip of the hat to Mahindra for showing there is a forgotten market segment here. What they offer might not be exactly what we want, but it's a step in the right direction at a time when the rest of the players seem ready to give up on the small truck.

[Bugman]

I could not agree more.Well put. When I first heard about this ,the early estimates were starting around 13,000.00 for a 2x4 at 30 mpg and a long bed.Everything has changed. I am not in a hurry to buy at the time but if something comes along reasonably priced with good mpg I'll be in line to buy it.At this point I would have to give Mahindra a few years to earn my faith before I could buy.

[sirmombo]

The two biggest negatives for me are safety and service. Initially all service will have to be done at a dealer. I have no idea where my closest dealer will be. There are none specified within 50 miles.

I have no doubt they will be safer than the Australian trucks, but they don't have side impact air bags or other safety features of the current US trucks. The current US trucks don't rate great in crash tests and I'd be very surprised if the Mahindra did better than marginal.

Initial buyers are taking a big risk that these trucks sell like Hyundai as opposed to Daewoo. If Mahindra fails in the US market, parts availability issues will make these trucks worthless.

[mdcheif]

Well thought out and too thought out. Great thoughts never-the-less.

I would be very hesitant to buy a fully-loaded tr-40 for 26-27.

I forgot what happened to the chicken tax. Are they going to have to pay that at first?

[howam00]

they claim they will cover the chicken tax until the trucks are produced in North America. I think the timeline for that was something like 2 years.

[Max465]

Originally Posted by pee wee

I am in agreement on many of your points, I was ready to ditch the hope that Mahindra would be offering what I was in the market for. The problem for me is that the current offerings here are not satisfactory. I was hoping for a new truck just like the one I bought in 1993- sturdy, basic, fuel efficient and cheap, but there is no longer a truck like that in this market... What they offer might not be exactly what we want, but it's a step in the right direction at a time when the rest of the players seem ready to give up on the small truck.

I have to agree with pee wee. Again it comes down to choice and delivering what the customers want. It’s clear that not all the needs of truckers are being currently served in the market. OEM’s have made a consistent effort to lure buyers to their full size pickups which provide them with fatter profit margins but do not provide compact ruggedness and efficiency to truckers. Yes, Mahindra’s trucks are not perfect but they are most definitely a step in the right direction and, at the very least, they deserve our full unbiased attention when they first hit our shores. And remember, the Australian truck is not the US-spec one. For example, aesthetically the bed looks nothing like the one we’ll be getting. I’m holding off judgment until I see the actual US-spec truck and a detailed spec sheet… and have had my first test drive.

[gnorthern]

Originally Posted by Max465

The Australian truck is not the US-spec one. For example, aesthetically the bed looks nothing like the one we’ll be getting. I’m holding off judgment until I see the actual US-spec truck and a detailed spec sheet… and have had my first test drive.

I have to agree that no other vehicle coming out meets what I want. Plus I do not agree with all of the initial analysis based on the Limited Edition Scorpio which does have the 2.2 liter.

MPG
The limited edition Scorpio has the same engine as the US model, and gets 26-28 mpg highway and 23 city. Since the 4x4 TR20 is 1100 pounds lighter, and has a six speed automatic instead of a 5 speed manual, I expect it to get 25 city and 30 highway.

Quality
They seem to have gotten this right on the Limited Edition. The biggest complaint is tire noise which the reviewer attributes to the Bridgestone tires. Seems easily fixed.

Out the door price, Resale value
I am taking a wait and see with this.

Options
I am reading far more pessimism about a diesel Ranger then optimism. I place the odds of a 2012 diesel Ranger in the US at less than 10%. Eerything I read says it it be a bigger F-100 with an eco-boost engine, and a diesel elsewhere in the world. And no jokes about the Mahindra also only having a 10% chance. I place the odds of a Mahindra arriving this year at about 70%.

[howam00]

Originally Posted by gnorthern

I have to agree that no other vehicle coming out meets what I want. Plus I do not agree with all of the initial analysis based on the Limited Edition Scorpio which does have the 2.2 liter.

MPG
The limited edition Scorpio has the same engine as the US model, and gets 26-28 mpg highway and 23 city. Since the 4x4 TR20 is 1100 pounds lighter, and has a six speed automatic instead of a 5 speed manual, I expect it to get 25 city and 30 highway.

Quality
They seem to have gotten this right on the Limited Edition. The biggest complaint is tire noise which the reviewer attributes to the Bridgestone tires. Seems easily fixed.

Out the door price, Resale value
I am taking a wait and see with this.

Options
I am reading far more pessimism about a diesel Ranger then optimism. I place the odds of a 2012 diesel Ranger in the US at less than 10%. Eerything I read says it it be a bigger F-100 with an eco-boost engine, and a diesel elsewhere in the world. And no jokes about the Mahindra also only having a 10% chance. I place the odds of a Mahindra arriving this year at about 70%.

1100 lbs lighter?! Really?! that is a huge difference. The spec sheet on Mahindra's website lists 4400 lbs for the 4x4 tr20 and 4532 lbs for the 4x4 tr40.

I fully expect only the tr20 in a 2x4 model will hit the 30 mopg figure but still where can you get 28 mpg in a truck. Even if the fuel is 5-10% more expensive it is about 30-50% better mileage than any competition, half ton or compact. (4 banger Ranger excluded)